YWAM Information Technology - Is IT a Sustainable Ministry Area in YWAM? - Comments

YWAM IT Outreach

bill.hutchison — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:12:44 +0000

The idea of a YWAM IT Outreach really appeals to me. I have created a new post YWAM IT Outreach so that we can continue this discussion there...

taken so long

Schmale — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:18:13 +0000

Hey, sorry its taken me so long to get back to reply here, I have been having some problems with staying logged on. I login, but then I still cannot make comments.
Anyway, I am in Tisdale, SK. About 8hrs drive from Calgary...

At Perth we have started to do an IT outreach, however that is kinda on hold at the moment now that I am away, but from what I heard we were able to be a big help to the bases we visted and I have since then had many other base leaders invite us internationally to come and do a similar thing there. We were at each base for 1 week, and even that I felt like was able to make a large impact.
Maybe we could collectively here look at ways to organize more IT outreaches?
A group of people that would be available to do something like that a few weeks every now and then?

For OS X users

tofirius — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 17:07:14 +0000

I never played this game when I was in school, but I just downloaded it & I wish that I had played it then! It's great! For those of you with Mac OS X, here's an emulator that will let you play this cool game (but you'll need to download these ROMs to make it work - the easiest ROM to use is the Apple 2e).

Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com

the website

stevewanless — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 05:56:26 +0000

Hey Bill,

here is the site http://www.classicgaming.com/rotw/otrail.shtml
There are two links at the bottom, one for a disk image and the other for a apple emulator - it's a mac game and I couldn't find a Windows version. Load the game by clicking on the disk drive image and browse to the file. Half way thru the game you need to 'flip the diskette', click on the same disk drive image (there are 2) and load the other side. Man that takes me back... 'please turn over the disk to continue'.
They have been releasing new versions of the game for some time now, but they don't look nearly as kool as this game.

We clocked it on the first go. But it was still fun. Luckily Trena's hunting skills have improved since the fourth grade so we didn't die of hunger... but we wernt far off.

On a side note, did you get the email I sent you a few days ago? I'm not sure if I got the right email. Do you want to email me at steve at seeyouontheflipside dot com if you didn't get it.

Steve

Download Oregon Trail!

bill.hutchison — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:48:54 +0000

Umm, I remember using that as a kid in school. Do you know where Steve downloaded it from?

Also I think that, as you said, we can also trust that God can provide the finances, or the people, or a bit of both (as we have experienced at our base).

The scenarios will be different for every base depending on their needs and what God wants to see happen there. I think that we need to be open to both possibilities and seek God for the best solution for our specific needs.

We also need to somehow figure out how to promote IT as a valued and valid missions activity. It will require a paradigm shift in many peoples minds who still see missions a pith hat and grass huts. There are people even now coming out of school with a desire to serve God, a knowledge of IT, but who don't know that they can combine the two of them. I know when I came to do my DTS in '98 I never thought that I could do both...

Interesting way to look at

stevewanless — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:39:11 +0000

Interesting way to look at it and that very well could be true. I guess on this one we just wont know for a while. My thoughts are, if they're learning website design now, what will they be learning in 10 years? System administration? 10-15 years ago people wouldn't have even thought about high school kids learning about building websites. In no way am I saying that people wont need training, of course they will, but I think you'll be easier able to find people way further along in their skills and also just a larger number of IT inclined people.
Another thought I just had. The provision of the Lord, now I'm not trying to get overly spiritual here. But I was just thinking that now adays and in the future this area is becoming more and more vital to reach the lost and I believe the Lord will provide workers. Maybe we're thinking just a little to practically here (not that practicality is not needed), maybe we need to add an aspect of faith however. If this area is truly needed...God will provide the people, just like he provides everything else. Perhaps it will be an uphill battle, but most things are in missions at one time or another. He will call people into IT, we need to do our part and let them know they are needed...probably somthing that YWAM as a whole needs to grab hold of a bit more. We hear tons of recruiting for other stuff, but not nearly as much IT stuff...sure, probably because not as many bases offer that stuff, but YWAM globally could probably do more. Just a thought. I do think that we need to trust the Lord to provide all our needs, including this area, whatever that may mean. Yet I do agree we shouldn't completely turn down the idea of the Lord providing through outsourcing, reality is some bases just wouldn't have the people to handle this area.
Don't worry you didn't miss out much on the old Oregon Trail...although Steve did download it in all it's glory as you see above and we got hooked into playing it the other night. :)

IT in Missions

david.couper — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:34:58 +0000

Trena - I think you bring up some very valid points - I think in 5 or 10 years the kids that are now in primary / beginning of secondary school will find making websites fairly easy...to a point. but I am not convinced that it will lighten any load on IT guys in missions. I think that people being able to create websites and such will be the equivilant of being able to effectively use desktop publishing to create good looking newsletters in the 80s. It will be where friends and family find out about you and you can update pictures and video and such. But I am not convinced that it will change the field of IT a lot. Kids learn a lot of things about how to use computers for tasks that they would have previously used pens and calculators and paint - but the level of understanding of coding and sys admin will not change to a huge degree - hence still requiring alot of maintenance and time spent on defense as opposed to offense (innovation).
I do think a mind set change is required over how we view missionaries (in the modern sense of the word) and the more and more we can people understanding how valid an area IT and communications are in YWAM and missions all over the world (in any organisation) the better.
PS I feel like I missed out a little on my childhood as I never play Oregan Trail!!

Just in case you forgot what Oregon Trail is...

stevewanless — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:40:37 +0000

You average American YWAM above the age of 21 probably grew up playing this game at school.

Give it time I think

stevewanless — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:31:29 +0000

Hey Bill, I'm not an IT, far from it actually...but my husband Steve is and so I get to hear all the stuff that's going on in that world and he's been filling me in on this blog and I do have some thoughts. I think that IT is a sustainable ministry but that it just needs more time to grow. I think that because the information age took off so quickly we forget that it's still relatively new. In elementary school our computer teaching was on the old Apple swith the huge keyboards and we played Oregon Trail and Number Crunchers. These days elementary kids are on brand new computers surfing the internet. I'm 23 and when I was in high school we didn't use the internet hardly at all, and I went to a school that was upper middle class America. Five - ten years ago not everyone even had an email address, in fact a lot of people who did only had it for work. So if you if you have trouble finding people who are skilled enough in these things, give it time I think. I'm probably the average age in YWAM, even a bit young if you factor out DTS students who come and go and I grew up with hardly any internet training...that's not the case now. Steve's nephew is like 15 and already knows how to design and build websites...he's learning it in school! Give it another 5-10 years and the new average age YWAMer will come in with way more tech skills then your seeing now. Sure, they may still need training, but they will be way further along!
One another point. Since IT is still a pretty new thing, more needs to be done to break the box of our ideas of what a missionary does. I'm convinced that this is an important area in missions...but yet when we tell people, especially older people that what Steve does is ministry, sometimes it feels like we have to convince people that it is. YWAM broke out of the box of traditional missionaries when Loren started it and has continued to do so, this is one area where we need to continue to recruit and really get young ones to realize that this is a real form of missionary work and that it's vital to the great commission in this day and age.
Well, there are some thoughts from an admitted non-techy, so take them for what their worth.
Blessings!
Trena

yeah..

tofirius — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:11:57 +0000

Job security is the problem! (smile)

Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com

Outsourcing IT

david.couper — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:32:30 +0000

I think Robert's comment hit it bang on the nose. We are always going to have need for some IT people, that goes without saying, but in order to continue working in the way in which YWAM has always been run - so that we are pioneering, always pushing the boundaries forwards, we need to consider the man hours we waste administering software, fixing hardware and so on, compared to the convinience of outsourcing.
As IT people we all have more work then time (If I am wrong contact me and we can try remote work teams to dish out some work your way!), but the reality is that is not going to get less and if we want to be pioneering new things, working to bridge the digital divide or whatever - we HAVE to streamline our IT and comms and as Robert says - keep the IT infrastructure level as THIN as possible.
Don't worry though as IT people in a volunteer organisation we have fairly decent job security!!

outsourcing / hosted applications

neo — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 05:32:30 +0000

Hi,
honstely I don't like the idea of outsourcing. Specially in a missions organisation that is present, and therefor communicating to, almost every country. Right now here in Australia, like in the most so called western world and many other parts of the world we're living in a free country.

But who can tell you that it will be like this forever?
I don't wanna be too pesimitic but the bible tells some very clear things about that and at that piont (if I'm still alive) I don't want to be dependend on other, in terms of non-christian organsiations/companies. I know, must sound pretty stupid, thinking-in-a-box or radical for a lot of you, well, last one is kinda what I'm known for in my thinking. But I just don't wanna wait for the piont-of-no-return.
Also I don't want Google to read all my communication and host all my appiontments. Today Google could run a profile on a person and could find out more about them then what ppl could think someone could know. No, thank you.

To be honest, if a base, where I am, decides to do some like that, then I'm history there.
I know that my system is not the best / most secure, but better than just using what ever service. If I communicate with ppl who are in countries where they don't like christians too much, I don't think that it's good anyway to do any outsourcing to the local guy down the road. Unless he's a christian.

I think it would be better to train IT ppl within YWAM and do IT (support) outreaches to bases in need. Speaking of that, since a long time I am think, and processing with my leader, about a school about IT, web design, web evangelism, etc. If it ever will happen it's still a long way to see some like that happen.
Maybe someone here has some thoughts about that.

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo

Network of YWAM IT People

bill.hutchison — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:58:55 +0000

Thanks for your input Willis.

The reason why we set up this web-site was to try to assist in developing that network of YWAM IT people. So far is has worked pretty well for a few of us, but I don't know how many people and YWAM bases are actually involved on here.

Your advice is good, but I know that even here in Australia where this is very strong national leadership, it can be a challenge to get bases working together in such a way.

YWAM being "broad structured and decentralized", one of our foundational values, comes with it's strengths, and it's weaknesses.

Get it Working at a Base Level

bill.hutchison — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:50:55 +0000

I forgot to mention how much I like the idea of working together on the base level solutions. YWAM is such a grass routes style organization that it would be good to look at how individual bases can be served. Because of the nature of YWAM every global project always consists of individual bases anyways...

I think that as we find base level solutions and are able to assist individual bases in increasing their communications ability it could greatly assist the mission as a whole.

The Challenge of lots of People

bill.hutchison — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:37:57 +0000

Thanks for the comments Steven.

YWAM bases (I speak for ours anyways) are always able to throw people at problems or ministry areas. One of the problems I face in IT is getting the right people thrown our way. Just because someone can use a computer doesn't always mean they can administer it (I can drive a car, but I wouldn't recommends getting into one that I built).

Our usual training cycle for someone in IT would be that they would come in for about three-months (we run our staff internship on three-month rotations) and work on the helpdesk with me and/or Sam overseeing them. This would mean helping users with their basic problems, deploying thin-clients, managing users, etc., pretty basic stuff. After the first three-months, if they decided to stick around, in the second stage they would begin to administer the network and servers more. Then in the third stage, after they got familiar with all that, they would start to work on new server / services deployment.

So far I have only had two people make it through to that third stage. One of them moved on to DTS leading right after getting there, and now the second person is looking at moving on in February to work with a ministry in India for about 9-months.

That describes a bit of the challenge that I have faced with YWAM being such a fluid organization...

PS. Where do you live in Canada again Steven? We'll be in Calgary...

Is IT a Sustainable Ministry Area in YWAM?

bill.hutchison — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 05:34:43 +0000

I wrote this article on my personal blog after experiencing a lot of problems in our ministry area, and thought that it would probably go very well on this site as well.

Information Technology has been a constant struggle for us at our base, and I can imagine it could be an even bigger challenge at smaller YWAM bases. One of the challenges we face is that as our base has grown so has our information technology (IT) infrastructure and our reliance on it. Because IT is quite a specialized area it is something that is often hard to find staff for. I have been at it at our location for about 8-years, and it has always been a struggle getting anyone else to stick at it long term. I have been talking with a few people lately, including David Couper who I have had the privilege to work with quite a lot, and we have both started to think that the only way to make IT sustainable in YWAM is to outsource it. Here is a good case study: Next month I will be leaving for Canada and Europe for a holiday and to visit some other YWAM bases. While I am gone there will only be one person in IT at our base of over 100 staff plus students. That person has just joined IT this week and we only have about a month to train him. His past experience has been with Macs and design and media type work. He is eager to learn, but there in my past experience we usually need at least 3 - 6 months to train someone up to even begin to manage our network. So for a period of almost three months we have to pray and hope that nothing goes wrong... Now if the system was outsourced that person would have a much easier time maintaining the system. They would be responsible for adding users, training users, some thin-client deployments, etc. But if anything major happened they would be able to pickup the phone and call a company who would be responsible for most or all of the server and software maintenance and deployments. Here at Reef to Outback we have had quite a few ministries start, run and then end after the people have moved on. Sometimes the ministry is started up again after a few months or years of down time, and sometimes it isn't. This includes our Event Management Team (never started up again) and our Youth Ministries Team (went through a leadership transition that saw some aspects of it stopped completely and other aspects added and grown). YWAM is a very fluid organization with it's staff and with those types of ministries it is possible. Information Technology can be a very different type of ministry area because as the area grows, so does the dependency on it, sometimes (like in our case) to the point where the ministry will have a very hard time surviving without it. With fluid staff this can be a massive challenge as when people leave it is very difficult to attract new people into the area. Also, because all of our staff are volunteers and we are sometimes not very picky with who we accept as staff, our knowledge base can fluctuate dramatically from one person to another. Next year (2008) we are looking at running a "Communication Technolgy School" to try to address some of these challenges facing us in the ministry. Even with an Information Technology related course being run it is still a huge challenge to make IT sustainable at over 850 different locations in almost every nation in the world. If it is financially viable at a YWAM Centre (not always the case) then the best option would probably be to outsource the Information Technology (we do it with vehicle maintenance, why not with computer maintenance as well). We also probably want to look more at hosted solutions rather then custom and in-house solutions and hosting. I am curious to know what your thoughts are on this matter. I have a feeling that some people will feel very strongly one way or the other, so let's start a good discussion...