YWAM Information Technology - Organisational Alignment - Comments

bridging the gap

neo — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:10:24 +0000

Hi @ all.

@Chris, of course not not everyone has to learn English. I would suggest German instead.... ;)
But on a serious note. I still believe that English is the most spread language in YWAM. Therefore it makes perfect sense that we hear / read most stuff in English. But it's true, when do we hear about ideas that are birthed in non English speaking countries.

I think that it's not so much the issue to get the information out there. If I'm right in my other post that the letter I linked to is the one we discussed earlier about (which I still have no confirmation for....) then we clearly see that things get translated and also made available for those speaking that language. So, the actual question then is, how do we get information back? This, of course, is the responsibility of those who can translate back into English, so that others can hear / read about the outcomes of discussions in other then the English speaking world. But do we have a platform where these multi-lingual discussions could be held or those outcomes could be reported?

Another thing with "bridging the gap" is what English we actually use. If someone throws around words that explain something in just one word instead of using 2 sentences for expressing the exact same thing the listener might thing that the speaker is truly high educated and knows about what he speaks. So, therefore he must be correct with what he says. I believe that this is at least a western world issue that if you use words that hardly anyone understands people think you are important / highly educated / very knowledgeable, etc.
Let me explain with a more practical example. I think that my English is not really that bad. My grammar might be a mess, but that's not really different in German. Also, I guess my spelling is better in English than in German, I never was a hero with that. But I do understand the people and hardly need a dictionary.
Well, I was asked once I could translate a promo video into German. 3 or 4 times I double checked to get the exact meaning of a paragraph, just to make sure I can translate as accurate as anyhow possible. But with one single sentence I had a really big problem to translate. Even a dictionary didn't satisfy me. So I asked, and to make a long story short, it took 4 native English speaker including one English teacher and about half an hour to get the meaning of what was said in that single sentence. Actually it was just one word that caused the trouble.

So, after this half hour I asked the people around me, the producers of this promo video, promoting their own work, if they really think that this is a good idea. While it sounded great, important, un-doubtable, I asked if that is really good that even the producers need half an hour to get the meaning of what was said. What do you actually want to tell others when you yourself don't know what was said. Others just see that video once, maybe no chance to go back or not willing to and listen to that a couple more times. Or the person is, like myself, not a native English speaker.
The answer was: uuuh, ahmmmm, uhmmmmm....

The bridge the gap the first thing we need to make sure is that we use simple words and are over communicating. While I know that some things just need to be named as what they are we also need to make sure that everything that by 1% chance could be miss-understood needs to be explained. In that sense, I can talk with knowledgeable people in that particuarl area what they think is the best RAID level for a certain scenario. But for everyone else I need to explain what I'm actually taking about.
The point really is that if we want that others are discussing about a certain issue then we must make sure that it's 250% clear what we're talking about. If it can be miss-interpreted, which during a translation process doesn't get better, the people asked for their opinion might consider (in worst case scenario) that this is not even worth talking about or does not apply to them.

So, the first item on the to-do list for "bridging the gap" should be clear, easy and unmistakable communication.

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo

Just the thing

tofirius — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:29:03 +0000

Hi Nathan,
I've talked briefly once with neo about such an idea... He's in Perth & I'm in Latvia (though currently I'm in the US, I'm returning to Latvia on March 7). When I get back from the US I will pray through & evaluate all the things I have before me to do. As the Lord leads, I will discuss something like this seminar school with my leadership to find out the feasibility of something like this. I'll be sure to keep folks up-to-date on this board. So, please let's pray further for the Lord's wisdom & direction in this area.

Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com

YWAM IT School? - Website From Scratch

Nathan Johnson — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:26:57 +0000

I would be interested in attending a short two or three week school to learn more about improving our websites. I still consider myself a beginner when it comes to web design, but I really want to learn more.

I inherited a hand-coded HTML and CSS website three years ago, and have since upgraded it to Drupal. I know a little HTML, and I can decipher some CSS, but when it comes to customizing a theme for Drupal using CSS, HTML, and some PHP, I'm lost.

I bet a lot of bases would benefit from a school where they could send one of their IT staff to learn more about building a website from scratch using Drupal, and learning how to customize, update, and maintain it.

Contact me if anyone is planning a school like that.

Nathan Johnson
YWAM Perm, Russia
www.ywam.ru | www.ywamperm.org

Growing pains...

tofirius — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:23:42 +0000

neo, I guess I was wondering if there are the same kinds of heated (& much needed) discussions & plans being had & made in the world of Portuguese, Spanish, Korean, French, etc. If so, how can we know about it? How can we collaborate? How many important ideas are being expressed in those languages among our brothers & sisters in those places that we aren't seeing here on this website & in other communications? Are people going to them to ask them? How can we facilitate this? Is it possible to bridge this gap? Or does everyone actually have to learn English?

Does this make sense?

I think what we're experiencing here in this discussion are the growing pains of learning to communicate effectively. It's hard to expect that an entity as large as YWAM that wasn't the greatest with communications in years past would suddenly become expert at it. I think there are major strides in this area & I believe it is largely because of Lynn Green taking ownership of this neglected ministry of communicating. As with anything in YWAM, a person must receive God's vision for something & then run with it & in doing so, inspiring others to contribute to it or join in. I believe this discussion (this forum, this website & others) exist because God put it in Lynn's heart to see the Lord's healing in YWAM in communications. We have all seen that need & discovered God's vision which He gave to Lynn initially & we've been pulled into it the way a God-vision should do.

I guess what I'd like to say is simply we should give ourselves extra grace in our communications because we're not used to communicating well, as a ministry. I believe with the formation of CRIT & all that has come from that shows massive improvement in communications as a whole. Look at all the websites that have sprung up from that. Look at the initiatives of the ICN with print material. Look at Lynn's letters that he regularly puts out along with podcasts. Look at all the podcasts that exist in YWAM (go into iTunes & search "YWAM" in podcasts). This is amazing to me!

As neo mentioned, it's hard to communicate effectively through the written medium only because so much depends on the reader & how he interprets what he reads. Early on in communicating through email or instant messages I discovered just how much skill is required to truly communicate well through writing only. So much is dependent on the relationship you have with the person you're communicating with. If you don't know the person well that you're emailing, then it's easy to misinterpret what he says causing problems of miscommunication, thus potentially hurting your relationship.

The Apostle Paul wrote letters to his churches when he wasn't able to be there in person, but often in those letters he expressed his deep desire to be with them in person. I believe this is because of a fundamental truth... building relationships that are meaningful have to be done in person. My point in this is we need to keep in mind that communication is merely a way to keep our relationships alive, but it will never be a way to truly build relationships that are lasting. So let's keep grace in our communications until we're able to meet face-to-face.

Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com

letter and languages

neo — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:54:57 +0000

Hi,
so, I was looking around a bit and I found what I believe is the letter in question downloadable in 5 languages. Can someone confirm that this is what it's referred to earlier?
http://ywamict.org/index.php/2007/10/october-2007-leadership-letter/

If that's the right letter then it's translated to at least 4 other languages. I don't know if that answers your (@Chris) question. But may I ask what you mean exactly by "most of what is being talked about is in the English language". Are you referring "only" to the language or is there in between the lines the question how we get the opinion of people not from native English speaking countries? Or even non westeners as in non Europeans, N.Americans and Aus/NZ?
So, about native English, I hope I still make more than enough mistakes so that everyone knows that I'm not. However, I once heard someone say that English is the "business" language of YWAM. From that point of view it makes sense that most is talked in English. Also, I believe that English is the most common language we have in YWAM.
However, I agree that it would be great if, at least, a summary could be translated back to English from those regions of the World that get things like this translated and discusses everything in another language. I think we are not so bad with getting the information out there, but do we get a response back?

Just a few thoughts....

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo

problem with communication

neo — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 06:24:18 +0000

Hi Kevin,
the funny thing (if you want to call it "funny") is that I understood your original comment exactly the way you explained it right now. So, no worries from here, lad.

Well, this is the problem with communication, if I say something another person might interpret my words different than I do. I'm a strategic thinker, therefore I understood your comment in the way that you want to see a more strategic definition or roadmap or something similar.
The quote in David's post doesn't even help me. Because to me that indicates that either the problem is unknown or we simply need to do it. Communicating more, deeper, detailed and asking for response to see whether the other person understood the same thing. But I fail to see that it happens.
For example there is a letter mentioned that should have been read out to all staff and students. 3 of the few people here expressing that they are unaware of this letter. It might have been that I missed it on our base because I had some holiday but then I was away during a typical holiday season. So, if the letter was sent out during that time (which I don't know) then the timing was not the best in the first place. I really wonder how many people actually don't know about it at all.

So, what we can learn here is that even if there is a letter that should have been read out to staff and students there is no guaranty that all YWAM heard about it.

Another example where I don't see that communication is happening.
The other blog about the request for help for this new online platform. I made the effort the other day to read through all 40+ comments. I see an high interest from the people here to help, some ideas have been expressed, but also many questions asked. But I hardly see any answers. I don't say that there are no answers at all, there are some, but too few. If I understood that whole topic right then the website should have been up and running by now. But there is no communication how things are going, updated schedule, etc.
This is somehow initiated by the GLT or ICT if I got that right. Therefore this clearly is a top to bottom communication. Well, even if I might stir up a hornets nest here but I always here that leaders should be a good example. No one should use that as an excuse, though. At least for myself I can say that I try to communicate as if that is all I would have to do. But still I fail in this area at times for different reasons. Mainly because see what I wrote up there in the second paragraph. I might assume sometimes things that someone else simply expected to happen different, all that can happen.

But please, please, please, please, dear leaders, I want to follow you by the clear word of God. But therefore I need to know that word of God. You prayed a lot about the things with this new communication platform? Great, but then please tell us what the Lord says about it, not just that we should build it. We only can help if we get answers to our questions and concerns, to all of them. Exact, detailed answers that can not be miss-understood.
I personally believe that we first need to get the communication going in a small setting before we can expect that it works within the whole mission or even beyond. We are just a few people here, so, can you imagine how clear the communication must be with 18k+ people? Translation issues, cultural background, etc. Even the few of us here, all with a interest in IT, are diverse enough so that we have a "robust debate". Just take me for example, my really brief emails (from my point of view) to my leaders are still too long for them and I really try to keep them as short as possible. Can you imagine how detailed I am and to what level I can push it when it's required?

So, again, I believe that this IT community is very willing to help to resolve the communication issue from an IT perspective. Also I believe that it can be a great help and big step forward. But please do answer our questions so that we are able to help. If the communication is not working out here then no platform in the world will be able to resolve the problems. At the end of the day not a website will make the difference, it's a decision everybody has to make to try to communicate better. The website can only be a tool to make it easier for people.

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo

What things hold us back?

Robert — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:04:02 +0000

The summary provided by David is accurate but I long to see something more clear and strategic that defines the sort of organisation we need to become so that I can see my role and responsibility and others can see theirs, in order to get us there.

Well said!

I would like to move the discussion along a bit. My question is "What is holding us back?"

Here is one thing that I see as holding us back.

Where are our boundaries?
My observation is that as a mission we are reluctant to draw clear boundaries around ourself. We would like to have fuzzy borders. We would like to be more like the core of a movement rather than a clearly defined organisation.

I am not going to try and prove this here, but I believe that the lack of simple boundaries around ourselves (and lack of simple clear internal boundaries between various parts of YWAM) have a flow on effect of making it difficult to be precise about IT & Communications related goals and objectives.

Please read my edited post

KevinColyer — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:28:47 +0000

Dear All,

First of all please read my edited blog post (at the top).

I want to underline my commitment to the prophetic word to YWAM of the need to improve our communications. I am frustrated personally by the lack of progress I perceive in the implementation of this word in our Mission. Of course when I respond out of frustration it is not going to help people here, who, to be honest, probably share the same sense that despite our best efforts YWAM is "treading water" and not swimming hard yet. To use the swimming metaphor, I long for YWAM to reach the shore and I am concerned that without a clear sense of direction to the shore we will never make it.

That is why I feel that a slogan is not enough. The summary provided by David is accurate but I long to see something more clear and strategic that defines the sort of organisation we need to become so that I can see my role and responsibility and others can see theirs, in order to get us there.

Kevin

letter, etc.

tofirius — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:51:00 +0000

At YWAM Latvia, we're usually very diligent to translate & read out loud all letters from the International Chairman's office. Although the possibility exists that I might have missed a meeting where Lynn's letter about communication & healing YWAM's nervous system was read aloud, at this point, I can't recall ever hearing something about this.

I think to answer Kevin's question of when we'd know when the nervous system has been healed, we could say that we would know when we have fewer incidences like this... especially among the communications teams.

My personal opinion is perhaps we should evaluate healing miscommunications from the past before we try addressing systems & solutions. Perhaps there should be an effort to personally go to people & ask for forgiveness for poor or lack of communication in years past. Perhaps we should begin rethinking the way we communicate & the words we choose to communicate. I believe that until there is a unilateral change of heart regarding communications within YWAM, no system will ever solve our issues.

At this point I believe we have our work seriously cut out for us, especially since (as far as I'm aware) most of what is being talked about is in the English language. How do we bridge that gap? How do we engage our family in Brazil or Korea, for instance? When will their opinions be heard? Perhaps our communications dilemma would be solved with a God word through someone from those countries/languages.

I am happy to receive any correction in these areas. Please know that I am fully in support of seeing God's healing occur.

Chris Bischoff
YWAM Latvia, Communications
www.ywamlatvia.com

letter from lynn

crashsystems — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:32:22 +0000

Does anyone have a copy of said letter from Lynn? I know I for one do not recall reading it (though it could just be because I'm a bit forgetful). It would probably be a good thing to put in the kb, and tag it to the communication section.

really surprised

neo — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:50:07 +0000

I'm really surprised. I never heard of a letter that should have addressed that topic. The first time I heard about healing the nervous system was here on this site.

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo

Blevins to the rescue...

KevinColyer — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:46:55 +0000

Thanks for the reply - that sentence is certainly concise but don't you think this is still a little vague?

1. How we will know when we are healed?
2. I can see top-down communication here but what about bottom-to-top communication? From the grass roots to senior leadership? Nervous systems don't just relay orders, they communicate the reality of the world around to the centre too!

Kev

very surprised!

david.couper — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:41:52 +0000

I am a little surprised at this - cause I think this issue has been over communicated.
This quote is taken from www.blevins.nl and is a defination of what healing the nervous system means -
"see God has been speaking to YWAM about 'healing the nervous system', which means healing YWAM's communication, both internally (from the Leadership on down to the "people on the ground" and vice versa) and externally to people outside YWAM."
I think that explains it pretty well.
A letter was also sent round to every YWAM base from Lynn a while ago talking about his and if the instructions were followed it should have been given to every staff and student to read.
No drama!

the outreach

Schmale — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:45:55 +0000

From what I know, it was kinda the first outreach of its kind, at least in Australia.
We went to 6 different bases and spent a week at each one, and did different things at each base.
We took 4 people each with a variety of skills and specialties. So 2 of us were adept at web and design, another at print and another at admin and wording.
So for example we were able to build a whole new site for YWAM Tribe 2 Tribe - www.ywamtribe.org.au , database driven, fully updateable and usable for a while to come and it is being used well currently.
In another base we did a lot of network admin stuff, setting up an exchange server, and a domain in another. Everywhere we went we did teaching on IT and principles related and skills involved. Everything that I heard back was very positive.
I know that it is possible to continue to do stuff like this, but we at Perth obviously cannot manage it all. :)
Love to hear more comments related to all this.

it outreach

neo — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:10:45 +0000

Hi @ all.

Believe or not but I was think quit a lot about something like an outreach, similar to that IT Outreach Steven mentioned, not long after we (my wife and I) came on staff here in Perth. I've been stirring that in my heart. Then I heard that a team (Steven, etc.) is preparing for that and I thought "that's what I was thinking about the whole time" and I heard about all the good stuff that happened when the team came back.
Now here it comes up again.

Basically, I want to encourage everyone who is kind of in the position to do an outreach like that, pray about it very seriously. Also check if another ministry on your base is able to do something like that. This is not an IT-only thing.

How that could look like? Well, probably different every time. According to the needs and the expertise that can be provided. But I guess it's always good to see how things are working at a different location, what and how the equipment is used and why a base choose exactly that.

Just a view thoughts.

Greetings from the MatriX,
neo